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Post by tinpot on Dec 29, 2021 21:16:23 GMT
Had a response typed out for the effect on me & my family of "wokeness" & "cancel culture". Hurts like hell. After typing it out & reading it back I deleted it, because even with the anonymity afforded by this page I didn't want to admit it.
It's a cultural phenomenon that's pure poison.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2021 21:25:22 GMT
This sketch was on mainstream TV. And on, perhaps, the biggest, most widespread satirical programme since That Was The Week That Was. Could you see it going out today? And, if not, which of those purple-haired lefties' fault is it? N.B. This isn't available on YouTube any more. Recently? All the shows I mentioned were removed from the archives less than 5 years ago. BTW, Spitting Image aired a new series this year. Mainly having a pop at right wing politicians and figureheads now though. Yes, you are right. there was a new Spitting Image this year. The point I was making was would you see this level of lampooning in this day and age? In other words, the erosion of satire (freedom of speech?) is from both sides of the spectrum. It's not something that only conservatives (small c) can be butthurt over. The Overton window hasn't swung unfairly one way or the other - despite your protestations - instead, it has narrowed to be the size of that one you have above the shitter. |
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Post by tinpot on Dec 29, 2021 21:35:06 GMT
In a thread about cancel culture, I'm struggling to think of a single thing the right wing has managed to cancel or silence. Let's face it, the growing trend of the student politics left wing, is the place where cancel culture is rife. From removing statues, to rewriting history to attack white culture and almost single handedly destroying comedy and laughter, the left has a lot to answer for. You've got to laugh how slavery is all selectively blamed on white people, when it was black people who captured and enslaved them, then sold them on. We also conveniently ignore modern day slavery, which is still rife around the world, even in the UK, as the vast, vast majority is carried out by Africans and Arabs and blame can't be put on the door of the self loathing white culture. I remember when comedy and sketch shows used to be plentiful on TV - Harry Enfield, The Fast Show, Little Britain, Newman and Baddeil, Smack the Pony, Hale and Pace, Bo Selecta, French and Saunders, Armstrong and Miller, The Young Ones.... You get the drift. Most of these have since ben removed from Al Beeb's archive as not to allow someone with a Che Guevara T Shirt to feel the need to be "offended" on behalf of someone else. What "comedy" do we have now on TV? A cross dressing Irishman? An Asian man who drives an old Merc? We have a gobby minority in charge of education and media and as a result everyone else's lives must be more miserable. Yes, it's very much a left thing for the most part, and some on the left do pride themselves on being 'woke'. They see the term as a badge of honour. Sure, labels can be dangerous, but it is the 'far right' label that is bandied about ad nauseam. While I might still say what I think to friends and family, you have to be very careful what you say at work or on social media today. People have lost heir jobs and have been vilified for things they said years ago, as a child. Also, when comedians and celebrities censor themselves, it affects me indirectly, especially when classic lines from comedies are deleted. I want to hear what people really think, and not a watered down version. The great comedian Bill Hicks loved the UK because he could express himself, even on television, whereas US TV shows always wanted him to tone down his act. How things have changed. I can confirm there's a lad I knew (lost touch with him now) who was sacked on the spot because it was discovered that he'd posted some racist stuff on facebook when he was 12. Don't get me wrong, what he put was pretty vile, but, you know.... he was 12. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2021 21:56:31 GMT
This sketch was on mainstream TV. And on, perhaps, the biggest, most widespread satirical programme since That Was The Week That Was. Could you see it going out today? And, if not, which of those purple-haired lefties' fault is it? N.B. This isn't available on YouTube any more. Mainly having a pop at right wing politicians and figureheads now though. You do know who is in charge now, right? And you do know how satire works, right? There's not much fun to be had in puncturing the egos and pomposity of those outside the castle walls. Call it cancel culture, but it's been this way since the 1500s . |
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Post by tinpot on Dec 29, 2021 22:18:11 GMT
“Disgust relies on moral obtuseness. It is possible to view another human being as a slimy slug or a piece of revolting trash only if one has never made a serious good-faith attempt to see the world through that person’s eyes or to experience that person’s feelings. Disgust imputes to the other a subhuman nature. How, by contrast, do we ever become able to see one another as human? Only through the exercise of imagination.”
A quote from Martha C Nussbaum that's a particular favourite of mine. Whether you regard yourself as "left" or "right", perhaps it would be worth examining your reaction towards those people you've learned to despise or show contempt for. Whether that's trans people, homosexuals, "the privileged few/parasite class", Muslims, Jews.... or whoever. Most people - even those you seek to vilify or "cancel" - are decent people who just have a different perspective from yours. Probably due to a different life experience.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2021 22:26:03 GMT
“Disgust relies on moral obtuseness. It is possible to view another human being as a slimy slug or a piece of revolting trash only if one has never made a serious good-faith attempt to see the world through that person’s eyes or to experience that person’s feelings. Disgust imputes to the other a subhuman nature. How, by contrast, do we ever become able to see one another as human? Only through the exercise of imagination.” A quote from Martha C Nussbaum that's a particular favourite of mine. Whether you regard yourself as "left" or "right", perhaps it would be worth examining your reaction towards those people you've learned to despise or show contempt for. Whether that's trans people, homosexuals, "the privileged few/parasite class", Muslims, Jews.... or whoever. Most people - even those you seek to vilify or "cancel" - are decent people who just have a different perspective from yours. Probably due to a different life experience. It makes sense when you think about the renaissance of the Etonians and how they feel they are born to rule. Placebo education, as explained by Rory Sutherland (in less than 30 seconds) (There's also the idea that Etonians don't care about being liked, which also makes them better equipped for high office. Again, it's all social conditioning from a very young age, rather than calculated disregard) |
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Post by tinpot on Dec 29, 2021 22:34:17 GMT
“Disgust relies on moral obtuseness. It is possible to view another human being as a slimy slug or a piece of revolting trash only if one has never made a serious good-faith attempt to see the world through that person’s eyes or to experience that person’s feelings. Disgust imputes to the other a subhuman nature. How, by contrast, do we ever become able to see one another as human? Only through the exercise of imagination.” A quote from Martha C Nussbaum that's a particular favourite of mine. Whether you regard yourself as "left" or "right", perhaps it would be worth examining your reaction towards those people you've learned to despise or show contempt for. Whether that's trans people, homosexuals, "the privileged few/parasite class", Muslims, Jews.... or whoever. Most people - even those you seek to vilify or "cancel" - are decent people who just have a different perspective from yours. Probably due to a different life experience. It makes sense when you think about the renaissance of the Etonians and how they feel they are born to rule. Placebo education, as explained by Rory Sutherland (in less than 30 seconds) (There's also the idea that Etonians don't care about being liked, which also makes them better equipped for high office. Again, it's all social conditioning from a very young age, rather than calculated disregard) You say "Etonians". I read "them". "The others". I'll confess that I've never met anyone from Eton, but other independent schools I have. Lots. By & large they're really nice people. Some are up their own arse dickheads, but you'll find some of those who attended your local state comprehensive are as well. They'll generally do better in their careers, but then there are numerous reasons for that. None of which justify viewing them as "a slimy slug or a piece of revolting trash". |
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Post by Detective Boyle on Dec 29, 2021 22:40:09 GMT
I think it impacts people quite a bit in their daily lives. You have to be pretty sure about the people you are talking to to be comfortable making all sorts of opinions known now. And Im not talking about particularly extreme opinions either. Nowhere is that more the case than in the workplace, where ,for want of a better phrase lets call them 'un-woke' opinions, can land you in some serious shit. I saw this in the workplace I used to go to about 3 years ago when a vastly experienced and much respected manager in his late 60s couldn't help himself but give opinions, usually light-heartedly, that were 'of his era' shall we say. Not officially but just in general conversation. Older members in thew workplace would just roll their eyes. Understand he was of a certain age and think no more about it. They'd understand he was being deliberately cheeky and edgy. That he grew up in an age where there weren't any groups that were beyond criticism or had the right to not be offended in any way But what I witnessed from the 'outraged', just out of university, achieved nothing, 20 somethings was appalling as they launched what could only be described as a witch hunt against the man ( who'd given them all their jobs by the way ) , with HR falling over themselves to be seen to fall in with their complete and utter intolerance of anyone who dared to offer an opinion , even in humour, that wasn't as woke as their own. Cost him his job in the end. It was appalling. The end result.. in that work setting, anyone with any opinion that isn't 'woke' has learned to keep them to themselves. You dont know who could be listening! Its not just celebs ( theyre just the cases you hear about ) Its something that is widespread in society. This fear of what can happen to you and your career if you dont fall in behind the opinions youre supposed to have. First bit absolutely. Sat in a meeting the other day with my company director/owner slagging off conservatives for 30mins, including eg “if my son voted Tory he’d be out of the house”. Myself, a Tory voter (although maybe not in the next GE - TBC!) sat there feeling very uncomfortable. I didn’t say anything but my god the next time it’s brought up I will be. But then the fact he feels so vehemently about tories would probably impact my career progression…the good old progressive left… |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2021 22:45:22 GMT
It makes sense when you think about the renaissance of the Etonians and how they feel they are born to rule. Placebo education, as explained by Rory Sutherland (in less than 30 seconds) (There's also the idea that Etonians don't care about being liked, which also makes them better equipped for high office. Again, it's all social conditioning from a very young age, rather than calculated disregard) You say "Etonians". I read "them". "The others". I'll confess that I've never met anyone from Eton, but other independent schools I have. Lots. By & large they're really nice people. Some are up their own arse dickheads, but you'll find some of those who attended your local state comprehensive are as well. They'll generally do better in their careers, but then there are numerous reasons for that. None of which justify viewing them as "a slimy slug or a piece of revolting trash". I'm not saying they are slugs or trash. Rather, suggesting why they may feel a given right to rule that has been imbued from birth. It's almost a sense of duty (which might be a burden for them) rather than some perceived cruelty. And when times get really tough, we - the general population - think that only these 'clever' people can get us out of the hole we are in. Despite all the evidence over the last hundred years ago to the contrary... However, I would say there's a world of difference between someone whose parents have done alright for themselves and decided to put little Jonny through the local "grammar" for the cost of a grand a term and a tenth-generation Etonian. |
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Post by londontown on Dec 30, 2021 12:52:34 GMT
Sup up your beer and collect your fags
There's a row going on down near Slough
Get out your mat and pray to the West
I'll get out mine and pray for myself
Thought you were smart when you took them on
But you didn't take a peep in their artillery room
All that rugby puts hairs on your chest
What chance have you got against a tie and a crest?
Hello-hurray, what a nice day
For the Eton Rifles, Eton Rifles
Hello-hurray, I hope rain stops play
For the Eton Rifles, Eton Rifles
Thought you were clever when you lit the fuse
Tore down the House of Commons in your brand new shoes
Composed a revolutionary symphony
Then went to bed with a charming young thing
Hello-hurray, cheers then, mate
It's the Eton Rifles, Eton Rifles
Hello-hurray, an extremist scrape
With the Eton Rifles, Eton Rifles
What a catalyst you turned out to be
Loaded the guns, then you run off home for your tea
Left me standing like a guilty schoolboy
What a catalyst you turned out to be
Loaded the guns, then you run off home for your tea
Left me standing like a naughty schoolboy
We came out of it naturally the worst
Beaten and bloody, and I was sick down my shirt
We were no match for their untamed wit
Though some of the lads said they'd be back next week
Hello-hurray, it's the price to pay
To the Eton Rifles, Eton Rifles
Hello-hurray, I'd prefer the plague
To the Eton Rifles, Eton Rifles
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Post by tinpot on Dec 31, 2021 21:18:29 GMT
You say "Etonians". I read "them". "The others". I'll confess that I've never met anyone from Eton, but other independent schools I have. Lots. By & large they're really nice people. Some are up their own arse dickheads, but you'll find some of those who attended your local state comprehensive are as well. They'll generally do better in their careers, but then there are numerous reasons for that. None of which justify viewing them as "a slimy slug or a piece of revolting trash". I'm not saying they are slugs or trash. Rather, suggesting why they may feel a given right to rule that has been imbued from birth. It's almost a sense of duty (which might be a burden for them) rather than some perceived cruelty. And when times get really tough, we - the general population - think that only these 'clever' people can get us out of the hole we are in. Despite all the evidence over the last hundred years ago to the contrary... However, I would say there's a world of difference between someone whose parents have done alright for themselves and decided to put little Jonny through the local "grammar" for the cost of a grand a term and a tenth-generation Etonian. You personally might not be saying it, but it's certainly the impression I get from a lot of people that they are viewed & (deliberately) portrayed in that light. As for the 10th generation Etonian - if the concern is their ability to "buy privilege", then taking away independent schools will not change that. The burden? I do get that. Those kids whose parents have paid a lot of money for their child's education and they jolly well want little Johnny to become a doctor or a lawyer. It just doesn't suit everybody. Think is, I think those parents would be just the same if their child went to a state comprehensive. "We've spent a lot of money buying a house in the catchment area for the best school in the city, so you'd better get to either Oxford or Cambridge". Wealthy people will always buy advantage. At least with the independent sector they're paying for it themselves, and not taking up state places that might otherwise be taken by children from lower income families. |
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Post by captslapper on Jan 1, 2022 11:04:27 GMT
I think it impacts people quite a bit in their daily lives. You have to be pretty sure about the people you are talking to to be comfortable making all sorts of opinions known now. And Im not talking about particularly extreme opinions either. Nowhere is that more the case than in the workplace, where ,for want of a better phrase lets call them 'un-woke' opinions, can land you in some serious shit. I saw this in the workplace I used to go to about 3 years ago when a vastly experienced and much respected manager in his late 60s couldn't help himself but give opinions, usually light-heartedly, that were 'of his era' shall we say. Not officially but just in general conversation. Older members in thew workplace would just roll their eyes. Understand he was of a certain age and think no more about it. They'd understand he was being deliberately cheeky and edgy. That he grew up in an age where there weren't any groups that were beyond criticism or had the right to not be offended in any way But what I witnessed from the 'outraged', just out of university, achieved nothing, 20 somethings was appalling as they launched what could only be described as a witch hunt against the man ( who'd given them all their jobs by the way ) , with HR falling over themselves to be seen to fall in with their complete and utter intolerance of anyone who dared to offer an opinion , even in humour, that wasn't as woke as their own. Cost him his job in the end. It was appalling. The end result.. in that work setting, anyone with any opinion that isn't 'woke' has learned to keep them to themselves. You dont know who could be listening! Its not just celebs ( theyre just the cases you hear about ) Its something that is widespread in society. This fear of what can happen to you and your career if you dont fall in behind the opinions youre supposed to have. First bit absolutely. Sat in a meeting the other day with my company director/owner slagging off conservatives for 30mins, including eg “if my son voted Tory he’d be out of the house”. Myself, a Tory voter (although maybe not in the next GE - TBC!) sat there feeling very uncomfortable. I didn’t say anything but my god the next time it’s brought up I will be. But then the fact he feels so vehemently about tories would probably impact my career progression…the good old progressive left… That an example of whats become standard left wing intolerance. It isn't enough to disagree with those on the right ( if the tories still count as that ) , you have to loath them. Vilify them as 'scum'.. sub-human somehow. If you could, you'd punish them for thinking a different way to yourself. Look at the labour party's deputy leader. Or momentum. Another example ( like the woke 20 somethings in that office I mentioned ) of people who love to stand on the moral high ground banging on about their love of tolerance.... but only to the things they chose to tolerate. They are incapable of showing any tolerance to the things and people they dont agree with. |
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Post by cissystrutt74 on Jan 1, 2022 11:15:15 GMT
Mainly having a pop at right wing politicians and figureheads now though. You do know who is in charge now, right? And you do know how satire works, right? There's not much fun to be had in puncturing the egos and pomposity of those outside the castle walls. Call it cancel culture, but it's been this way since the 1500s . This you tube clip looks like it's been cancelled? |
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Post by londontown on Jan 1, 2022 12:18:59 GMT
You do know who is in charge now, right? And you do know how satire works, right? There's not much fun to be had in puncturing the egos and pomposity of those outside the castle walls. Call it cancel culture, but it's been this way since the 1500s . This you tube clip looks like it's been cancelled? It happens a lot. Satire and 'having a pop at people' is fine, but canceling people and alternative opinions is another thing entirely. I'm not sure why some still can't see the difference. It's like the JK Rowling scenario. People might not agree with her, and might want to ridicule her, but banishing her from social media platforms, removing her from the Grauniad birthday list, and disinviting her from the Harry Potter reunion is petty in the extreme. |
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Post by realmadkid on Jan 1, 2022 12:56:04 GMT
First bit absolutely. Sat in a meeting the other day with my company director/owner slagging off conservatives for 30mins, including eg “if my son voted Tory he’d be out of the house”. Myself, a Tory voter (although maybe not in the next GE - TBC!) sat there feeling very uncomfortable. I didn’t say anything but my god the next time it’s brought up I will be. But then the fact he feels so vehemently about tories would probably impact my career progression…the good old progressive left… That an example of whats become standard left wing intolerance. It isn't enough to disagree with those on the right ( if the tories still count as that ) , you have to loath them. Vilify them as 'scum'.. sub-human somehow. If you could, you'd punish them for thinking a different way to yourself. Look at the labour party's deputy leader. Or momentum. Another example ( like the woke 20 somethings in that office I mentioned ) of people who love to stand on the moral high ground banging on about their love of tolerance.... but only to the things they chose to tolerate. They are incapable of showing any tolerance to the things and people they dont agree with. I have noticed a massive change in this respect over the last 20 years or so. Up until that point, the media in all its forms and the general public opinion was totally anti-extreme left but now this seems to have become the default position, with anything to the right of Karl Marx, being utterly vilified at every opportunity. I see the phrase 'far-right extremism' everywhere in the media these days. Hmm, could it be because we are rapidly heading for leftist totalitarianism, fuelled in part by extreme political correctness perchance?? |
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