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Post by Deep Space on Feb 7, 2022 21:08:25 GMT
As suggested, and in the interests of preserving my friend Captslapper's sanity, I thought I'd have a crack at seeing if we can have a sensible debate about the WEF & their role in global economics.
I'm struggling how to phrase it really as I don't want to shut anyone out, nor dress the debate in biased language, but likewise would like to read some evidence-based ideas or theoretical perspectives on what it is they actually do, why, in whose interests, etc., without descending into some of the realms that the reset thread went into. Perhaps what makes sense is to suggest that theories that view the WEF's Great Reset concept as being about those groups seeking global domination or related ideas are best discussed on the thread that WW started, whereas this one can look at economic & political ideas that don't see it in that particular way? I accept there's overlap but fingers crossed anyway. My personal view at the moment is that the Great reset plan & associated statements are the diametric opposite of a global Socialist agenda. It seems to me that what we actually have is a group of very wealthy, powerful and influential people who are more likely worried that an unstable world is not really in their interests. Where I start to worry is when I try to understand what the concept of Stakeholder Capitalism actually means. Who are the stakeholders? What stake are they supposed to have & how do they utilise it? Most of the WEF 'partners' are indeed multi-national powerhouses & of course, their 'stake' is going to be much higher than Bob the Builder Ltd. round the corner. But I don't really understand what they have a stake in, other than perhaps the preservation & expansion of Capitalism which I think is being put at risk by a number of factors. The other thing I worry deeply about is that what this actually might be aimed at is how private corporations can get their fingers deeper into public services. When they talk about multi-stakeholder partnerships, I get a sense that what this is really about is enabling the private sector to, if you like, be a more senior partner in world governance than actual Governments. In this sense I agree with WW in that I think there is something of an agenda going on that isn't all positive. Anyway, like I said on the other forum, I keen to read some thoughts on this to build a perspective on it. Let's see how far we can get! |
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Post by captslapper on Feb 8, 2022 0:35:25 GMT
I can't say I know enough about the WEF to add much. My main source of information seems to be from Wilson so I tend to dismiss it out of hand.
Not saying everything he says will be totally wrong.. just that when it comes from him I can't have any confidence it wont be.
One of the things I always try to think of when assessing things such as this is motive. The people who are doing it.. why are they doing it.
And there we usually get directed to that old staple of human instinct,, greed. They do it to get more money.
Or we get directed to a plethora of 'theories' that sound more like the script of the next Bond film than anything else.
Bill Gates is one name that always seems to get brought up as a main man of this capitalist money grab. But for me, thats where the motive idea struggles a bit.
He already has more money than he could possible spend. There is literally nothing he couldn't own if he wanted to buy it.
So why would he want more money that he can't spend?
And if gaining money is the motive.. why has he given away $50 billion over the years on philanthropic projects?
Seems a strange thing to do.
And it seems that whilst he can't spend it quick enough, he can't give it away quick enough either as whilst handing out all that money, he's actually become even richer anyway ( proving the point that money makes money ) , but even so.. if greed is the suggested motive, his extremely generous philanthropy seems to go against that.
Or is it a case of power and influence being the motive?
I think that battles been lost already and theyre wasting their time if it is.
The power and influence,. in this country anyway, is firmly in the grasp of woke obsessed liberals. They seem to have power over everything and everyone.. the media, politicians of all sides, the sports, the arts, the police, education, business, the environment, even history is under their control...I doubt you can even buy power and influence like they have managed to get, no matter how much brass you've got.
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Post by El Mel on Feb 8, 2022 7:15:47 GMT
It's quite simple.
They are changing the way we live our lives to preserve planet earth - because as humans, we will selfishly destroy it if nobody stops us.
Everything that affects your life now is about reducing energy consumption.
You can put whatever political slant on it you wish, but that is the agenda.
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Post by Deep Space on Feb 8, 2022 7:50:58 GMT
It's quite simple. They are changing the way we live our lives to preserve planet earth - because as humans, we will selfishly destroy it if nobody stops us. Everything that affects your life now is about reducing energy consumption. You can put whatever political slant on it you wish, but that is the agenda. Do yyou think they are doing it for benign reasons Mel (as in they are genuinely worried & think left our own/our Government's devices that nothing will change)? If so, do you think it's reasonable that an unelected group of people can supercede national Governments, no matter how just the cause might be? I'm not saying it isn't btw, as I know it happens in all sorts of other ways, just interested in what you think about the WEF as a multi-national vehicle for (possibly) slowing down climate change? |
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Post by Deep Space on Feb 8, 2022 7:59:10 GMT
I can't say I know enough about the WEF to add much. My main source of information seems to be from Wilson so I tend to dismiss it out of hand. Not saying everything he says will be totally wrong.. just that when it comes from him I can't have any confidence it wont be. One of the things I always try to think of when assessing things such as this is motive. The people who are doing it.. why are they doing it. And there we usually get directed to that old staple of human instinct,, greed. They do it to get more money. Or we get directed to a plethora of 'theories' that sound more like the script of the next Bond film than anything else. Bill Gates is one name that always seems to get brought up as a main man of this capitalist money grab. But for me, thats where the motive idea struggles a bit. He already has more money than he could possible spend. There is literally nothing he couldn't own if he wanted to buy it. So why would he want more money that he can't spend? And if gaining money is the motive.. why has he given away $50 billion over the years on philanthropic projects? Seems a strange thing to do. And it seems that whilst he can't spend it quick enough, he can't give it away quick enough either as whilst handing out all that money, he's actually become even richer anyway ( proving the point that money makes money ) , but even so.. if greed is the suggested motive, his extremely generous philanthropy seems to go against that. Or is it a case of power and influence being the motive? I think that battles been lost already and theyre wasting their time if it is. The power and influence,. in this country anyway, is firmly in the grasp of woke obsessed liberals. They seem to have power over everything and everyone.. the media, politicians of all sides, the sports, the arts, the police, education, business, the environment, even history is under their control...I doubt you can even buy power and influence like they have managed to get, no matter how much brass you've got. I pretty much agree with you about Gates. He's an interesting character in one sense that what comes across is that he'd prefer to go back to coding in his bedroom if he could, but through being a bit too good at something that became highly marketable he finds himself one of (the?) world's richest men. I think people like him, Musk to a degree, Branson, all come across as alright sort of people who seem to have realised that you can be an entrepreneur, head up multi-national empires & be a populist as well. I know that he purports to be religious (Catholic I think) & may be operating under genuine spiritual guidance from somewhere ("It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven"). I don't know.
I'm less sympathetic to the view about wokeism. Based on other discussions we've had, I accept it's an influence in our lives & not always a positive or welcome one. But whoever the 'woke liberals' calling the shots are, they don't have the kind of ability to influence stock markets (& hence pension funds), interest rates, create or destroy jobs, move factories around the world, build gigantic warehouses or production units pretty much wherever they want and so on that WEF members generally do.
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Post by El Mel on Feb 8, 2022 8:28:39 GMT
It's quite simple. They are changing the way we live our lives to preserve planet earth - because as humans, we will selfishly destroy it if nobody stops us. Everything that affects your life now is about reducing energy consumption. You can put whatever political slant on it you wish, but that is the agenda. Do yyou think they are doing it for benign reasons Mel (as in they are genuinely worried & think left our own/our Government's devices that nothing will change)? If so, do you think it's reasonable that an unelected group of people can supercede national Governments, no matter how just the cause might be? I'm not saying it isn't btw, as I know it happens in all sorts of other ways, just interested in what you think about the WEF as a multi-national vehicle for (possibly) slowing down climate change? I don't look too deeply into it tbh, haven't got time, but the forum is made up of many democratically elected leaders from across the planet, and some not so of course. My view is that the Chinese will manufacture a LOT of the day to day goods we need, with a blind eye turned to the environmental damage that may do (at least in the short term). Meanwhile Bezos will distribute those goods to your door as efficiently as possible. That coupled with a global change in our lifestyles, led by international governments will see the changes needed to stop the continued damage of the planet. I still think Covid was used as part of the 're-set', and it has worked to some degree. Energy prices going through the roof in Europe yet in Asia, where products need to manufactured on the cheap, the prices remain relatively stable. We are being controlled, but we always have been, attritional deaths for the greater good are part of our subculture, wars, slavery, famine, Covid. It's a simplistic summary of my views, but I will say this, I think a lot of people dismiss the WEF without acknowledging who they are. When you bring all the leaders of governance and business together in one place, you don't do it to drink tea and eat cake. |
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Post by captainblack on Feb 8, 2022 10:58:48 GMT
I have had to look up information on the WEF as I really know little
about them , this piece seems to sum up their intentions,
"Improving the state of the world by engaging business , political
academic , and other leaders of society to shape global , regional
and industry agendas"
To me , this sounds relatively harmless , though I am sure others
will think the exact opposite , I honestly do not know what sort
of power and influence they wield.
To reap real power I would have thought that an organization like
the WEF would have members elected into governments and begin to
influence policy.
I don't have a problem with the ultra wealthy , but with wealth
then you generally have greater influence and power , I suppose
it depends on the individuals how they use that influence.
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Post by londontown on Feb 8, 2022 11:13:40 GMT
Do yyou think they are doing it for benign reasons Mel (as in they are genuinely worried & think left our own/our Government's devices that nothing will change)? If so, do you think it's reasonable that an unelected group of people can supercede national Governments, no matter how just the cause might be? I'm not saying it isn't btw, as I know it happens in all sorts of other ways, just interested in what you think about the WEF as a multi-national vehicle for (possibly) slowing down climate change? I don't look too deeply into it tbh, haven't got time, but the forum is made up of many democratically elected leaders from across the planet, and some not so of course. My view is that the Chinese will manufacture a LOT of the day to day goods we need, with a blind eye turned to the environmental damage that may do (at least in the short term). Meanwhile Bezos will distribute those goods to your door as efficiently as possible. That coupled with a global change in our lifestyles, led by international governments will see the changes needed to stop the continued damage of the planet. I still think Covid was used as part of the 're-set', and it has worked to some degree. Energy prices going through the roof in Europe yet in Asia, where products need to manufactured on the cheap, the prices remain relatively stable. We are being controlled, but we always have been, attritional deaths for the greater good are part of our subculture, wars, slavery, famine, Covid. It's a simplistic summary of my views, but I will say this, I think a lot of people dismiss the WEF without acknowledging who they are. When you bring all the leaders of governance and business together in one place, you don't do it to drink tea and eat cake.Klaus Schwab regularly boasts that he has numerous people in place. It is no secret that the likes of Ardern, Morrison, Blair, Trudeau, and Macron are graduates. They are all advocates of cumpulsory vaccination (by proxy or otherwise), and the counter-productive lockdowns were obviously part of their Reset. |
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Post by captslapper on Feb 8, 2022 11:22:32 GMT
I can't say I know enough about the WEF to add much. My main source of information seems to be from Wilson so I tend to dismiss it out of hand. Not saying everything he says will be totally wrong.. just that when it comes from him I can't have any confidence it wont be. One of the things I always try to think of when assessing things such as this is motive. The people who are doing it.. why are they doing it. And there we usually get directed to that old staple of human instinct,, greed. They do it to get more money. Or we get directed to a plethora of 'theories' that sound more like the script of the next Bond film than anything else. Bill Gates is one name that always seems to get brought up as a main man of this capitalist money grab. But for me, thats where the motive idea struggles a bit. He already has more money than he could possible spend. There is literally nothing he couldn't own if he wanted to buy it. So why would he want more money that he can't spend? And if gaining money is the motive.. why has he given away $50 billion over the years on philanthropic projects? Seems a strange thing to do. And it seems that whilst he can't spend it quick enough, he can't give it away quick enough either as whilst handing out all that money, he's actually become even richer anyway ( proving the point that money makes money ) , but even so.. if greed is the suggested motive, his extremely generous philanthropy seems to go against that. Or is it a case of power and influence being the motive? I think that battles been lost already and theyre wasting their time if it is. The power and influence,. in this country anyway, is firmly in the grasp of woke obsessed liberals. They seem to have power over everything and everyone.. the media, politicians of all sides, the sports, the arts, the police, education, business, the environment, even history is under their control...I doubt you can even buy power and influence like they have managed to get, no matter how much brass you've got. I pretty much agree with you about Gates. He's an interesting character in one sense that what comes across is that he'd prefer to go back to coding in his bedroom if he could, but through being a bit too good at something that became highly marketable he finds himself one of (the?) world's richest men. I think people like him, Musk to a degree, Branson, all come across as alright sort of people who seem to have realised that you can be an entrepreneur, head up multi-national empires & be a populist as well. I know that he purports to be religious (Catholic I think) & may be operating under genuine spiritual guidance from somewhere ("It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven"). I don't know.
I'm less sympathetic to the view about wokeism. Based on other discussions we've had, I accept it's an influence in our lives & not always a positive or welcome one. But whoever the 'woke liberals' calling the shots are, they don't have the kind of ability to influence stock markets (& hence pension funds), interest rates, create or destroy jobs, move factories around the world, build gigantic warehouses or production units pretty much wherever they want and so on that WEF members generally do.
They can influence business though. At least those who run businesses are very wary of not falling foul of them. A minor example that springs to mind would be the way the company making midget gems fell over themselves to change the product name recently and publicly thanked those on their back for 'educating' them. So there is a certain amount of influence there. Certainly if we include green issues as being 'woke' then the costs of hitting the targets we've set must be having quite a substantial effect on such things as the markets, interest rates etc. As for the green issues in general that Mel brings up.. the elephant in the room that never seems to be mentioned ( presumably by the WEF either ) is the fact there are simply way too many people living on this planet now. Neither Greta, Attenborough or anyone else ever dares to state the obvious fact what we really need is a lot of people to disappear asap if we're really going to save planet earth. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2022 11:55:00 GMT
They have the ability to influence stocks and businesses tbh. Just look at the contracts for the manufacturing of PPE. Not given to companies with endless years of experience but to ones made 6 months if that, prior to the Covid situation. All companies having connections with politicians dishing the money out. Stocks in the said companies also rising, making the rich richer. These politicians obviously being onside with WEF. They can virtually do anything.
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Post by sabre on Feb 8, 2022 12:32:34 GMT
It hurts my head to be honest.
All I would add is …. SHELL & BP ….
Announced profits of about £ 35 BILLION between them while people have to choose between ‘ eat or heat’.
Probably not connected to this thread but worth flagging up.
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Post by Wilsonwilson on Feb 8, 2022 12:36:28 GMT
I have had to look up information on the WEF as I really know little about them , this piece seems to sum up their intentions, "Improving the state of the world by engaging business , political academic , and other leaders of society to shape global , regional and industry agendas" To me , this sounds relatively harmless , though I am sure others will think the exact opposite , I honestly do not know what sort of power and influence they wield. To reap real power I would have thought that an organization like the WEF would have members elected into governments and begin to influence policy. I don't have a problem with the ultra wealthy , but with wealth then you generally have greater influence and power , I suppose it depends on the individuals how they use that influence. Who's agendas though? Ah..... The Global Socialist WEF agenda. They are trying to convert the entire planet to this form of super large state Global Socialism where we all depend on the state and the rich corporates behind the WEF. It's dressed up as cuddly Socialism, but is really 1984 all over, but with the WOKE super rich and powerful Capitalists pulling the strings. |
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Post by Wilsonwilson on Feb 8, 2022 12:38:34 GMT
It hurts my head to be honest. All I would add is …. SHELL & BP …. Announced profits of about £ 35 BILLION between them while people have to choose between ‘ eat or heat’. Probably not connected to this thread but worth flagging up. Don't worry, the large capitalist directed states will rescue us from the large capitalists. Fear, control, transfer of wealth. Welcome to The Great Reset. |
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