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Post by Deep Space on Dec 29, 2021 8:19:15 GMT
Ok .. why have the msm cancelled Jim Saville and Rofl Harris but not Michael Jacko Advocates of cancel culture are more interested in canceling and labeling political views, not so much perversions. There is obviously good reason that certain celebrities are talked about in hushed tones, if at all, but there have long been laws against their activities. Conservative (with a small 'c') opinions in respect of LGTBQ, Islam, and Cultural Marxism are generally labelled as this or that phobic and or far right. It's the creeping censorship sponsored by the perpetually offended that concerns me. The recent high court ruling against non-crime hate-crimes is a massive victory for common sense, but there is a long way to go. A lot of comedy acts admit to censoring themselves for fear of a pile on leading to cancellation, and lines are still being edited out of classic comedies. I've said already that labelling people is childish & harmful, so I agree with you in that sense. I think that me calling you racist or you calling me woke are just signs that we've run out of arguments but just want to win.
However, I disagree that the left "generally" do that. I will hold my hands up & say that there have always been idiots on the left. There are people who like slogans better than they like to think through an argument & others who really don't want to see a Labour government because they are more comfortable waving placards. My old friend Molly Walton (a Labour councillor in Crosland Moor for many years, who came from a very radical left/trade union tradition, & for those who knew her, really didn't mince her words) used to say that the thing she hated about ultra-lefties was that they were against everything & for nothing.
Had I spent my life being involved in Conservative politics though, I suspect I'd have bumped in to a fair few equivalent idiots along the way.
This is why I asked the question about how people see this in their daily lives (not through the media, Twitter or the eyes of celebrities). Within the Labour Party, there are very active debates going on about what the parties position should be on all sorts of things. There is a very strong women's lobby that is very vociferous about female-only spaces, for example. Nobody is getting cancelled, nobody is getting death threats, & the trans/pro-trans members are (for the most part) able to engage in heated but reasonable discussion with evidence about their own issues.
My own take on this is that there really isn't any overpowering cancel culture in the real world of most people. Yes things are happening to celebs that I disagree with, but in the social media world, we have more people complaining about Our Yorkshire Farm's Xmas dinner & who got voted off 'I'm A Z-Lister That No-one Has Heard Of, But Will Strut Around In A Bikini For A Morning TV Interview' than we do about most of these issues.
For me, it's all about perspective. Tackle a problem that exists (and I aren't arguing that there are cases where problems do exist) but take the time to assess who is being affected by cancel culture, how badly & what is it stopping you doing that you'd otherwise do?
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Post by Wilsonwilson on Dec 29, 2021 10:18:57 GMT
Advocates of cancel culture are more interested in canceling and labeling political views, not so much perversions. There is obviously good reason that certain celebrities are talked about in hushed tones, if at all, but there have long been laws against their activities. Conservative (with a small 'c') opinions in respect of LGTBQ, Islam, and Cultural Marxism are generally labelled as this or that phobic and or far right. It's the creeping censorship sponsored by the perpetually offended that concerns me. The recent high court ruling against non-crime hate-crimes is a massive victory for common sense, but there is a long way to go. A lot of comedy acts admit to censoring themselves for fear of a pile on leading to cancellation, and lines are still being edited out of classic comedies. I've said already that labelling people is childish & harmful, so I agree with you in that sense. I think that me calling you racist or you calling me woke are just signs that we've run out of arguments but just want to win.
However, I disagree that the left "generally" do that. I will hold my hands up & say that there have always been idiots on the left. There are people who like slogans better than they like to think through an argument & others who really don't want to see a Labour government because they are more comfortable waving placards. My old friend Molly Walton (a Labour councillor in Crosland Moor for many years, who came from a very radical left/trade union tradition, & for those who knew her, really didn't mince her words) used to say that the thing she hated about ultra-lefties was that they were against everything & for nothing.
Had I spent my life being involved in Conservative politics though, I suspect I'd have bumped in to a fair few equivalent idiots along the way.
This is why I asked the question about how people see this in their daily lives (not through the media, Twitter or the eyes of celebrities). Within the Labour Party, there are very active debates going on about what the parties position should be on all sorts of things. There is a very strong women's lobby that is very vociferous about female-only spaces, for example. Nobody is getting cancelled, nobody is getting death threats, & the trans/pro-trans members are (for the most part) able to engage in heated but reasonable discussion with evidence about their own issues.
My own take on this is that there really isn't any overpowering cancel culture in the real world of most people. Yes things are happening to celebs that I disagree with, but in the social media world, we have more people complaining about Our Yorkshire Farm's Xmas dinner & who got voted off 'I'm A Z-Lister That No-one Has Heard Of, But Will Strut Around In A Bikini For A Morning TV Interview' than we do about most of these issues.
For me, it's all about perspective. Tackle a problem that exists (and I aren't arguing that there are cases where problems do exist) but take the time to assess who is being affected by cancel culture, how badly & what is it stopping you doing that you'd otherwise do?
In a thread about cancel culture, I'm struggling to think of a single thing the right wing has managed to cancel or silence. Let's face it, the growing trend of the student politics left wing, is the place where cancel culture is rife. From removing statues, to rewriting history to attack white culture and almost single handedly destroying comedy and laughter, the left has a lot to answer for. You've got to laugh how slavery is all selectively blamed on white people, when it was black people who captured and enslaved them, then sold them on. We also conveniently ignore modern day slavery, which is still rife around the world, even in the UK, as the vast, vast majority is carried out by Africans and Arabs and blame can't be put on the door of the self loathing white culture. I remember when comedy and sketch shows used to be plentiful on TV - Harry Enfield, The Fast Show, Little Britain, Newman and Baddeil, Smack the Pony, Hale and Pace, Bo Selecta, French and Saunders, Armstrong and Miller, The Young Ones.... You get the drift. Most of these have since ben removed from Al Beeb's archive as not to allow someone with a Che Guevara T Shirt to feel the need to be "offended" on behalf of someone else. What "comedy" do we have now on TV? A cross dressing Irishman? An Asian man who drives an old Merc? We have a gobby minority in charge of education and media and as a result everyone else's lives must be more miserable. |
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Post by londontown on Dec 29, 2021 11:20:05 GMT
I've said already that labelling people is childish & harmful, so I agree with you in that sense. I think that me calling you racist or you calling me woke are just signs that we've run out of arguments but just want to win.
However, I disagree that the left "generally" do that. I will hold my hands up & say that there have always been idiots on the left. There are people who like slogans better than they like to think through an argument & others who really don't want to see a Labour government because they are more comfortable waving placards. My old friend Molly Walton (a Labour councillor in Crosland Moor for many years, who came from a very radical left/trade union tradition, & for those who knew her, really didn't mince her words) used to say that the thing she hated about ultra-lefties was that they were against everything & for nothing.
Had I spent my life being involved in Conservative politics though, I suspect I'd have bumped in to a fair few equivalent idiots along the way.
This is why I asked the question about how people see this in their daily lives (not through the media, Twitter or the eyes of celebrities). Within the Labour Party, there are very active debates going on about what the parties position should be on all sorts of things. There is a very strong women's lobby that is very vociferous about female-only spaces, for example. Nobody is getting cancelled, nobody is getting death threats, & the trans/pro-trans members are (for the most part) able to engage in heated but reasonable discussion with evidence about their own issues.
My own take on this is that there really isn't any overpowering cancel culture in the real world of most people. Yes things are happening to celebs that I disagree with, but in the social media world, we have more people complaining about Our Yorkshire Farm's Xmas dinner & who got voted off 'I'm A Z-Lister That No-one Has Heard Of, But Will Strut Around In A Bikini For A Morning TV Interview' than we do about most of these issues.
For me, it's all about perspective. Tackle a problem that exists (and I aren't arguing that there are cases where problems do exist) but take the time to assess who is being affected by cancel culture, how badly & what is it stopping you doing that you'd otherwise do?
In a thread about cancel culture, I'm struggling to think of a single thing the right wing has managed to cancel or silence. Let's face it, the growing trend of the student politics left wing, is the place where cancel culture is rife. From removing statues, to rewriting history to attack white culture and almost single handedly destroying comedy and laughter, the left has a lot to answer for. You've got to laugh how slavery is all selectively blamed on white people, when it was black people who captured and enslaved them, then sold them on. We also conveniently ignore modern day slavery, which is still rife around the world, even in the UK, as the vast, vast majority is carried out by Africans and Arabs and blame can't be put on the door of the self loathing white culture. I remember when comedy and sketch shows used to be plentiful on TV - Harry Enfield, The Fast Show, Little Britain, Newman and Baddeil, Smack the Pony, Hale and Pace, Bo Selecta, French and Saunders, Armstrong and Miller, The Young Ones.... You get the drift. Most of these have since ben removed from Al Beeb's archive as not to allow someone with a Che Guevara T Shirt to feel the need to be "offended" on behalf of someone else. What "comedy" do we have now on TV? A cross dressing Irishman? An Asian man who drives an old Merc? We have a gobby minority in charge of education and media and as a result everyone else's lives must be more miserable. Yes, it's very much a left thing for the most part, and some on the left do pride themselves on being 'woke'. They see the term as a badge of honour. Sure, labels can be dangerous, but it is the 'far right' label that is bandied about ad nauseam. While I might still say what I think to friends and family, you have to be very careful what you say at work or on social media today. People have lost heir jobs and have been vilified for things they said years ago, as a child. Also, when comedians and celebrities censor themselves, it affects me indirectly, especially when classic lines from comedies are deleted. I want to hear what people really think, and not a watered down version. The great comedian Bill Hicks loved the UK because he could express himself, even on television, whereas US TV shows always wanted him to tone down his act. How things have changed. |
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Post by captslapper on Dec 29, 2021 11:22:36 GMT
Watched the xmas special of the new All Creatures Great and Small last night.
As with the 2 new series before it, the street/market scenes of this ficticious 1930s dales village are a multi-cultural sight to behold!
It seems so strange to me that the producers would go to such length, and expense no doubt, to accurately portray village life of that era. The costumes, the cars, the sets. Think they use Grassington to film it so the makeover required must be extensive.
Yet they'll happily blow all that realism out of the water by shoeing in a plentiful supply of black extras wondering about in the background going about their daily 1930s Dales lives.
WHY?
Its utterly pathetic.
If I was black Id also find it pretty insulting . Its patronising and condescending.
Its like the producers and their TV executive bosses are saying ' Black people are so stupid, they wont be able to understand that a 1930s Dales village wouldn't have been like that.
Theyre so thick and fragile they'll get upset and accuse us of racism if we dont give the village a racial demographic in tune with most 2021 urban areas.
So in the name of tokenism we'll chuck realism out of the window.
What the fuck is wrong with these people?!
And as ever, its the rampant, unbridled levels of hypocrisy surrounding this mentality that really gets you.
On the one hand you've got Eddie Raymayne feeling the need ( feeling the pressure more like ) to apologise for playing a trans gender role in a film about 8 years ago 'because the part should have been taken by a trans actor'.
A fuss kicked up because a black character in the Simpsons is voiced by a white actor.
All over this woke obsessed industry people cow towing to this idea that some actors should not be allowed to play some roles... if theyre white and or straight of course.
But at the same time, a black Ann Boleyn?? Why thats brilliant.. a wonderful celebration of diversity.
Perhaps David Jason could play Nelson Mendela in something and these people would be equally thrilled by the diversity given to the role??
Cancel culture and tokenism , like so many other woke minded obsessions is full of so many double standards you couldn't make it up.
An end to perceived discrimination by introducing rampant, blatant discrimination in its place.
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Post by londontown on Dec 29, 2021 11:36:42 GMT
Watched the xmas special of the new All Creatures Great and Small last night. As with the 2 new series before it, the street/market scenes of this ficticious 1930s dales village are a multi-cultural sight to behold! It seems so strange to me that the producers would go to such length, and expense no doubt, to accurately portray village life of that era. The costumes, the cars, the sets. Think they use Grassington to film it so the makeover required must be extensive. Yet they'll happily blow all that realism out of the water by shoeing in a plentiful supply of black extras wondering about in the background going about their daily 1930s Dales lives. WHY? Its utterly pathetic. If I was black Id also find it pretty insulting . Its patronising and condescending. Its like the producers and their TV executive bosses are saying ' Black people are so stupid, they wont be able to understand that a 1930s Dales village wouldn't have been like that. Theyre so thick and fragile they'll get upset and accuse us of racism if we dont give the village a racial demographic in tune with most 2021 urban areas. So in the name of tokenism we'll chuck realism out of the window. What the fuck is wrong with these people?! And as ever, its the rampant, unbridled levels of hypocrisy surrounding this mentality that really gets you. On the one hand you've got Eddie Raymayne feeling the need ( feeling the pressure more like ) to apologise for playing a trans gender role in a film about 8 years ago 'because the part should have been taken by a trans actor'. A fuss kicked up because a black character in the Simpsons is voiced by a white actor. All over this woke obsessed industry people cow towing to this idea that some actors should not be allowed to play some roles... if theyre white and or straight of course. But at the same time, a black Ann Boleyn?? Why thats brilliant.. a wonderful celebration of diversity. Perhaps David Jason could play Nelson Mendela in something and these people would be equally thrilled by the diversity given to the role?? Cancel culture and tokenism , like so many other woke minded obsessions is full of so many double standards you couldn't make it up. An end to perceived discrimination by introducing rampant, blatant discrimination in its place. It's historical revisionism, and it's bullshit. This historian knows his stuff. |
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Post by Wilsonwilson on Dec 29, 2021 11:46:54 GMT
Much like how Al Beeb managed to specially ruin War of the Worlds by force feeding the viewers on left wing agenda, from criticising nationalism and the British Empire to pushing the idea of Climate change, as somehow being all man made and fearful. www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/10293190/pc-bbc-hg-wells-woke-drama/The same writer is responsible for turning Doctor Who into a left wing political propaganda stunt. Another reason why I binned my TV licence a couple of years ago. |
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Post by realmadkid on Dec 29, 2021 12:36:43 GMT
I've not watched TV for over 5 years. I have a TV, but only use it for non-TV purposes, YouTube, the occasional film etc. etc. ! also 'cast' my laptop onto there - but apart from that, nothing.
The 'agenda' is being pushed relentlessly in all forms of the media. I have recently had what I regarded as being fairly mild (for me!) videos removed from YouTube without consultation for allegedly 'breaching our community guidelines' which of course is 'Newspeak' for blatant censorship and speaking out against the prevailing agenda in its many guises.
Fortunately non-censoring alternative platforms such as Odysee and Rumble exist where its possible to still speak the truth and speak out against the current tyranny.
'1984' is definitely NOT some distant future improbability - its already here. I read it again a few months ago and the resemblance to the way things are today, is striking.
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Post by Wilsonwilson on Dec 29, 2021 13:12:24 GMT
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Post by Deep Space on Dec 29, 2021 16:26:28 GMT
There's a lot in that, & in truth I agree with some bits & not with others, so I'll do my best to go through it. In a thread about cancel culture, I'm struggling to think of a single thing the right wing has managed to cancel or silence. I can't agree on that, unless you are starting history from somewhere around the late 2010s. Depending on which part of history you want to delve into, having left-wing or anti-Establishment opinions could have you tortured, executed, deported, imprisoned, vilified, beaten up, lose your job, etc. Many left-wingers were smeared &/or erased from history because their message was one that people in power didn't want to hear, so they were cancelled before they had even started. In my life, I have been threatened several times, had drinks thrown in my face & been accused of all sorts for expressing left-wing views. Right wing cancelling has been going on for ever and a day, in the real world as well, never mind on Twitter. Let's face it, the growing trend of the student politics left wing, is the place where cancel culture is rife. From removing statues, to rewriting history to attack white culture and almost single handedly destroying comedy and laughter, the left has a lot to answer for. Student politics is & always has been a load of nonsense. Even when I was a student I couldn't always be arsed with it. It's largely, depending on what level you are at, a bunch of not always very clever middle class idiots playing at being revolutionaries before they qualify as quantity surveyors or whatever they end up doing. I remember the 'no platform' argument raging...and I mean raging, with people getting red in the face & shouting & swearing about it. I used to just sit & wonder how these people would behave if they had real problems to worry about (my dad worked at Hops at the time & was facing redundancy...I couldn't even find anyone much to talk to about that as a real world problem). Like many people though who have replaced critical thinking with...well, just being critical, they find a voice through social media that is far louder than it might have been in days gone by. You've got to laugh how slavery is all selectively blamed on white people, when it was black people who captured and enslaved them, then sold them on. We also conveniently ignore modern day slavery, which is still rife around the world, even in the UK, as the vast, vast majority is carried out by Africans and Arabs and blame can't be put on the door of the self loathing white culture. I kind of think this is a separate debate really. I know slavery gets brought into debates, sometimes legitimately; other times not. I don't know a lot about modern trafficking routes & who control them so in fairness I don't know if you're right or wrong on that issue. I remember when comedy and sketch shows used to be plentiful on TV - Harry Enfield, The Fast Show, Little Britain, Newman and Baddeil, Smack the Pony, Hale and Pace, Bo Selecta, French and Saunders, Armstrong and Miller, The Young Ones.... You get the drift. Most of these have since ben removed from Al Beeb's archive as not to allow someone with a Che Guevara T Shirt to feel the need to be "offended" on behalf of someone else. What "comedy" do we have now on TV? A cross dressing Irishman? An Asian man who drives an old Merc? We have a gobby minority in charge of education and media and as a result everyone else's lives must be more miserable. I just googled all those you listed & had very little trouble finding work by any of them. I was also fairly easily able to find Bernard Manning, Benny Hill & Jim Davidson as well as music by Gary Glitter & Rolf Harris. So I'm not sure any of these are entirely being cancelled. Where I do agree is when we see live performances & TV shows being cancelled (I think this is where the term arose) for minor things people might have said or tweeted. That does trouble me, at least up to a point anyway. However, I come back to twhat I keep saying. This stuff might be impacting upon celebs but how far is it actually affecting what we, as 'ordinary' people do or say in our daily lives? |
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Post by captslapper on Dec 29, 2021 16:58:10 GMT
I think it impacts people quite a bit in their daily lives.
You have to be pretty sure about the people you are talking to to be comfortable making all sorts of opinions known now.
And Im not talking about particularly extreme opinions either.
Nowhere is that more the case than in the workplace, where ,for want of a better phrase lets call them 'un-woke' opinions, can land you in some serious shit.
I saw this in the workplace I used to go to about 3 years ago when a vastly experienced and much respected manager in his late 60s couldn't help himself but give opinions, usually light-heartedly, that were 'of his era' shall we say.
Not officially but just in general conversation.
Older members in thew workplace would just roll their eyes. Understand he was of a certain age and think no more about it. They'd understand he was being deliberately cheeky and edgy.
That he grew up in an age where there weren't any groups that were beyond criticism or had the right to not be offended in any way
But what I witnessed from the 'outraged', just out of university, achieved nothing, 20 somethings was appalling as they launched what could only be described as a witch hunt against the man ( who'd given them all their jobs by the way ) , with HR falling over themselves to be seen to fall in with their complete and utter intolerance of anyone who dared to offer an opinion , even in humour, that wasn't as woke as their own.
Cost him his job in the end. It was appalling.
The end result.. in that work setting, anyone with any opinion that isn't 'woke' has learned to keep them to themselves. You dont know who could be listening!
Its not just celebs ( theyre just the cases you hear about ) Its something that is widespread in society. This fear of what can happen to you and your career if you dont fall in behind the opinions youre supposed to have.
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Post by Wilsonwilson on Dec 29, 2021 17:11:29 GMT
There's a lot in that, & in truth I agree with some bits & not with others, so I'll do my best to go through it. In a thread about cancel culture, I'm struggling to think of a single thing the right wing has managed to cancel or silence. All that tells me is that when talking current affairs, like a lot of left wingers do, they prefer to live in the past, prior to 2010, ignoring the way life is changing for the worst due the shift to to WOKEism. In the here and now, this is cancel culture and it's the left spreading it like a virus. Most of those BBC shows have been removed from the BBC archives and will never be aired again, due to bed wetting Che Guevara T Shirt wearing lefties, feeling the need to be offended on behalf of someone else. They've killed comedy in the UK. That effects all of us. Some of us don't want to be a miserable left winger, spending their life being offended on behalf of others. Using climate fascism as an excuse, the far left via media brainwashing and political posturing are trying to stop me eating meat, driving petrol cars, they're pushing to stop me having an opinion of my own, being allowed to laugh at others, having freedom of speech, being proud on my heritage, my race and my culture without feeling guilt or shame, they stop me from highlighting clear and obvious issues with immigration, lack of integration and many other issues. It's comical how those on the left pretend these things are not affecting anyone. |
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Post by Deep Space on Dec 29, 2021 18:45:26 GMT
There's a lot in that, & in truth I agree with some bits & not with others, so I'll do my best to go through it. I can't agree on that, unless you are starting history from somewhere around the late 2010s. All that tells me is that when talking current affairs, like a lot of left wingers do, they prefer to live in the past, prior to 2010, ignoring the way life is changing for the worst due the shift to to WOKEism. In the here and now, this is cancel culture and it's the left spreading it like a virus. Most of those BBC shows have been removed from the BBC archives and will never be aired again, due to bed wetting Che Guevara T Shirt wearing lefties, feeling the need to be offended on behalf of someone else. They've killed comedy in the UK. That effects all of us. Some of us don't want to be a miserable left winger, spending their life being offended on behalf of others. Using climate fascism as an excuse, the far left via media brainwashing and political posturing are trying to stop me eating meat, driving petrol cars, they're pushing to stop me having an opinion of my own, being allowed to laugh at others, having freedom of speech, being proud on my heritage, my race and my culture without feeling guilt or shame, they stop me from highlighting clear and obvious issues with immigration, lack of integration and many other issues. It's comical how those on the left pretend these things are not affecting anyone. Nobody is living in the past; I'm telling you that people with left-wing views are frequently cancelled in lots of ways. I've evidenced a fair few of them to make the point. I'm going to be honest, what you've written there presents more of you describing what fear rather than anything tangible to make the point. Tell me, and I'm talking about you personally:
Do you eat meat?
Do you drive a petrol car?
Do you have opinions of your own? Are you able to express views you have in your normal daily life? Do you laugh at others when you want to? Do you express your opinions on immigration/integration? Are you proud of your heritage?
I suspect that the truth for you in your normal life is that you do most of these things as & when you want, so you aren't being cancelled & still live in a society where you can do everything you think you are being told you can't.
One last thing: don't you think that your stereotyping of left-wingers as "miserable", "bedwetting", "spending their life being offended on behalf of others" or "pretend(ing) these things are not affecting anyone" is in fact a very good example of cancelling behaviour in itself?
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Post by Wilsonwilson on Dec 29, 2021 19:47:59 GMT
Do tell me all about these TV shows cancelled for being too left wing?
I’m fascinated now as my version of reality is way different.
All of the things I mentioned are being restricted more and more, as each day passes. Well, they are in the reality I exist in.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2021 19:58:53 GMT
Do tell me all about these TV shows cancelled for being too left wing? I’m fascinated now as my version of reality is way different. All of the things I mentioned are being restricted more and more, as each day passes. Well, they are in the reality I exist in. This sketch was on mainstream TV. And on, perhaps, the biggest, most widespread satirical programme since That Was The Week That Was. Could you see it going out today? And, if not, which of those purple-haired lefties' fault is it? N.B. This isn't available on YouTube any more. |
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Post by Wilsonwilson on Dec 29, 2021 20:21:52 GMT
Do tell me all about these TV shows cancelled for being too left wing? I’m fascinated now as my version of reality is way different. All of the things I mentioned are being restricted more and more, as each day passes. Well, they are in the reality I exist in. This sketch was on mainstream TV. And on, perhaps, the biggest, most widespread satirical programme since That Was The Week That Was. Could you see it going out today? And, if not, which of those purple-haired lefties' fault is it? N.B. This isn't available on YouTube any more. Recently? All the shows I mentioned were removed from the archives less than 5 years ago. BTW, Spitting Image aired a new series this year. Mainly having a pop at right wing politicians and figureheads now though. |
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