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Post by londontown on Jan 5, 2022 17:11:10 GMT
Dont forget that riot of hilarity... the Vicar of Dibley! Pretty sure they even knelt for BLM in their xmas special last year, which was somewhat ironic with it being just about the only show on the BBC that doesnt have a single black character in it. ( shame it isn't a period drama set in pre war rural England,, then half the cast could be black!) Fact Check! The vicar has had a black man in her. |
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Post by tinpot on Jan 5, 2022 18:56:49 GMT
This is the best our National broadcaster can muster for comedy nowadays. www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/categories/comedy/featuredMiranda, Citizen Khan and some Irish cross dresser. Really? I remember when the BBC had countless comedy shows of decent quality. Now, looking at their schedule just reminds me why I gave up on live TV and binned my licence. (at the 5th attempt, after Al Beeb refused to take no for an answer). Strange. I just cancelled mine, no fuss, first time. We have a licence again now, but that's by choice - no pressure applied from "Al Beeb". |
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Post by tinpot on Jan 5, 2022 19:11:24 GMT
What I was looking for was not an example but a definition. If there was a completely new, previously unknown comedian/sitcom/etc. that you were seeing for the first time - what would they have to do to make you say "This is left wing comedy"? Or conversely, "This is right wing comedy"? Without an answer to what makes something left or right wing, the question of "which comedies were cancelled for being too left wing?" is meaningless. Comedy used to be uninhibited for the most part, never really falling into the left/right paradigm, although it has probably always been more fashionable to have a pop at the Tories. I think it is perfectly reasonable to describe woke comedy as left wing, for obvious reasons. Many of the woke pride themselves on being of the left, and many on the left pride themselves on being woke. You won't see them attacking immigration, Islam, minorities, remainers, or LGTBQ. Stuart Lee being a case in point. You will, however, see them attacking critics of any of the above. Grim over at DATM described Geoff Norcott as right wing, presumably on the basis that he will challenge some of the sacred issues mentioned. Pat Condell is another 'right wing' comedian. That's part of my reasoning for rejecting the label. * If people who preach tolerance act in an intolerant manner, * If they promote antisemitism or otherwise denote some sections of society as inherently uniquely powerful & malevolent, demonising & dehumanising them in order to unify society against a perceived common enemy <cough> The Privileged Few <cough> * If they promote transfer of power away from individuals and to any other party (governmental or otherwise), * If they promote censorship of views they don't like * If they seek to instill fear in people ... and then seek to place themselves at the opposite end of the political spectrum to fascists - then I'm not going to recognise that label. Either "Woke culture" is right wing, fascism is left wing, or the L/R paradigm is meaningless. |
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Post by londontown on Jan 5, 2022 20:15:13 GMT
Comedy used to be uninhibited for the most part, never really falling into the left/right paradigm, although it has probably always been more fashionable to have a pop at the Tories. I think it is perfectly reasonable to describe woke comedy as left wing, for obvious reasons. Many of the woke pride themselves on being of the left, and many on the left pride themselves on being woke. You won't see them attacking immigration, Islam, minorities, remainers, or LGTBQ. Stuart Lee being a case in point. You will, however, see them attacking critics of any of the above. Grim over at DATM described Geoff Norcott as right wing, presumably on the basis that he will challenge some of the sacred issues mentioned. Pat Condell is another 'right wing' comedian. That's part of my reasoning for rejecting the label. * If people who preach tolerance act in an intolerant manner, * If they promote antisemitism or otherwise denote some sections of society as inherently uniquely powerful & malevolent, demonising & dehumanising them in order to unify society against a perceived common enemy <cough> The Privileged Few <cough> * If they promote transfer of power away from individuals and to any other party (governmental or otherwise), * If they promote censorship of views they don't like * If they seek to instill fear in people ... and then seek to place themselves at the opposite end of the political spectrum to fascists - then I'm not going to recognise that label. Either "Woke culture" is right wing, fascism is left wing, or the L/R paradigm is meaningless. Rightly or wrongly, we all get labeled and put into groups based on our colour, religion, accent, and background, etc. Woke culture is predominantly leftist, obviously, although ironically they behave more like fascists. Of course, they would reject this label, but then the left always deny their strong historical links with fascism. |
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Post by captslapper on Jan 6, 2022 0:03:03 GMT
One of the fundamental core traits of fascism is a total intolerance to opposing views.
Anyone having them can expect to be silenced in some way often with the use of intimidation and threats and at the very least discredited.
Its a fascist trait very common in the far left and the overtly woke obsessed. See DATM for examples.
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Post by Wilsonwilson on Jan 6, 2022 10:59:02 GMT
One of the fundamental core traits of fascism is a total intolerance to opposing views. Anyone having them can expect to be silenced in some way often with the use of intimidation and threats and at the very least discredited.
Its a fascist trait very common in the far left and the overtly woke obsessed. See DATM for examples. Politics has gone full circle. The modern far left are nothing to do with the working class left. They are often middle class and higher, right the way up to the super rich and powerful of the WEF funders of Gates, Soros, Dorsey etc. They preach intolerance, they silence any opposition, control the media and education, ban people from monopoly social media platforms for not meeting the far left agenda. That is pure fascism and I agree, is the way the far left is heading at an alarming rate, dragging the country with it, even though we are supposed to have a Conservative government in charge of things. |
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Post by realmadkid on Jan 6, 2022 11:37:28 GMT
One of the fundamental core traits of fascism is a total intolerance to opposing views. Anyone having them can expect to be silenced in some way often with the use of intimidation and threats and at the very least discredited.
Its a fascist trait very common in the far left and the overtly woke obsessed. See DATM for examples. Politics has gone full circle. The modern far left are nothing to do with the working class left. They are often middle class and higher, right the way up to the super rich and powerful of the WEF funders of Gates, Soros, Dorsey etc. They preach intolerance, they silence any opposition, control the media and education, ban people from monopoly social media platforms for not meeting the far left agenda. That is pure fascism and I agree, is the way the far left is heading at an alarming rate, dragging the country with it, even though we are supposed to have a Conservative government in charge of things. Totally agree except for the fascism bit. Its definitely an absurdity that the allegedly right wing Tory party is now heading far left as with all other brands of politics! But re the fascism bit... what is happening throughout the world today is pure communism actually. I actually believe that we are constantly bombarded with the abstract noun 'fascism' as a (not so) subtle distraction from this fact. Biden in America, for example, is an out and out commie sympathiser, totally under the influence of China and Israel. |
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Post by captslapper on Jan 6, 2022 11:39:51 GMT
The whole political spectrum has lurched to the left over recent years.
What these people regard as overtly right wing is testament to that.. pretty much anyone to the right of Mao!
Look at the current tories...about as far off being 'tory' as they've ever been in their history. A party of huge state control , massive public spending and high taxation.
Think it shows the all encompassing power of the media in this age of the internet and agenda driven broadcasters like the BBC.
And without question these things, with their enormous influence and power are firmly in the grip of the left.
Were now in an age where what Stormzy, Eddie Izzard or Danial Radcliffe thinks and says is VASTLY more influential than any actual politician or political analyst.
And all such 'celebs' are either fully on board with this left wing fascism or are too scared to do anything but be seen to support it.
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Post by realmadkid on Jan 6, 2022 11:42:06 GMT
The whole political spectrum has lurched to the left over recent years. What these people regard as overtly right wing is testament to that.. pretty much anyone to the right of Mao! Look at the current tories...about as far off being 'tory' as they've ever been in their history. A party of huge state control , massive public spending and high taxation. Think it shows the all encompassing power of the media in this age of the internet and agenda driven broadcasters like the BBC. And without question these things, with their enormous influence and power are firmly in the grip of the left. Were now in an age where what Stormzy, Eddie Izzard or Danial Radcliffe thinks and says is VASTLY more influential than any actual politician or political analyst. And all such 'celebs' are either fully on board with this left wing fascism or are too scared to do anything but be seen to support it. Spot on Capt! |
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Post by Wilsonwilson on Jan 6, 2022 12:26:36 GMT
Totally agree except for the fascism bit. Like I said, I believe politics has gone full circle. World leaders to the left, such as Macron and Morrison of Australia, are acting like full on Nazi's and alarmingly many agree with forced vaccination and internment camps. Let's not forget the Nazi's were born from the Socialist Workers Party. The problem is though, that this modern left wing behaviour, matches that of the definition of fascism to a T, apart from Fascism being seen as a right wing constraint. Look at the definitions. Fascism Fascism is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and the economyCommunism Communism is a philosophical, social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money, and the state. It seems to me, like the WEF's plan for the Great Reset 2030, with it's "Global Socialism", is a bastard love child of Communism and Fascism, but more to the ideology of fascism. |
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Post by londontown on Jan 6, 2022 12:37:28 GMT
What we are witnessing is totalitarianism, whether you characterise it as fascism or communism. Regardless, the Chinese model has been described as the way forward by a number of globalists. This is no secret.
The Chinese model permits both corporate and authoritarian excess. Corporate fascism some call it. The Chinese produce at least 80% of the raw materials for western pharmaceuticals, not to mention the face masks that now litter land and sea. They are laughing all the way to the international banks.
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Post by realmadkid on Jan 6, 2022 12:45:22 GMT
Totally agree except for the fascism bit. Like I said, I believe politics has gone full circle. World leaders to the left, such as Macron and Morrison of Australia, are acting like full on Nazi's and alarmingly many agree with forced vaccination and internment camps. Let's not forget the Nazi's were born from the Socialist Workers Party. The problem is though, that this modern left wing behaviour, matches that of the definition of fascism to a T, apart from Fascism being seen as a right wing constraint. Look at the definitions. Fascism Fascism is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and the economyCommunism Communism is a philosophical, social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money, and the state. It seems to me, like the WEF's plan for the Great Reset 2030, with it's "Global Socialism", is a bastard love child of Communism and Fascism, but more to the ideology of fascism. I take your points, but actually do not agree with that definition of communism. This is what 'they' want you to believe communism is, and is partly true but that is nowhere near the whole story. In reality it is just as dictatorial, suppressive and authoritarian as fascism - if not even more so. I admit though that there is a 'blurring of boundaries' going on. |
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Post by Wilsonwilson on Jan 6, 2022 13:19:38 GMT
What we are witnessing is totalitarianism, whether you characterise it as fascism or communism. Regardless, the Chinese model has been described as the way forward by a number of globalists. This is no secret. The Chinese model permits both corporate and authoritarian excess. Corporate fascism some call it. The Chinese produce at least 80% of the raw materials for western pharmaceuticals, not to mention the face masks that now litter land and sea. They are laughing all the way to the international banks. Yet their citizens have zero freedoms and rights, unless they obey the CCP totally. We're getting this soon, some are too naive to see what's going on using Covid as an excuse. |
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Post by Deep Space on Jan 6, 2022 17:35:02 GMT
Using any of those terms is largely pointless but there is a difference in the terms which has relevance to using them accurately. Fascism was a name chosen to apply to a political movement & used the symbolism of ancient Rome to create a Nationalistic & populist movement. The faces (careful how you spell that boys & girls) symbolised a kind of 'us against the world' psychology, of which race wasn't a major factor earlier on...Mussolini was far more worried about Communists than Jews.
Nazism was just an abbreviation for a random party that Hitler used as a tool. He, of course, was fuelled by an assortment of hatreds & set out to eliminate them one by one. Although he hit Communists even before he hit Jews.
In both cases though, if you strip away the persecution & murder (!) then what's left were two nations that were largely using Keynesian policies to repair their economies at a time when Britain was still pretending it could get back to the economy-wrecking gold standard.
Communism is a defined political doctrine that various political groups have adopted to define their political stance. Granted the end result didn't look that different, but if you want to start bandying these things around as anything more than playground insults, then at least there should be some level of understanding as to what they are.
Woke culture in my mind then isn't any sort of *ism. It is what it is insofar as we can agree on any sort of consensus. People are doing what people always have & always will do. Shouting, having tantrums, causing chaos to get what they want. That's happened forever one way or another, but it really isn't either a doctrine nor a movement. It's just people making a noise about what matters to them. Working-class people, then women got the vote by doing that. Actually the wealthiest of the middle-classes got the vote almost a century earlier by doing just that. Equal rights & pay happened because people did that. Health & Safety at work happened because people did that. Blair potentially could lose his knighthood if enough people do that. Plus thousands of issues, large & small; local & national. So we have to be clear, are people upset about the tactics, or the issue? If you object to the tactics because you don't like the message then that's really just the opposite side of the same coin in my eyes.
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Post by tinpot on Jan 6, 2022 17:56:36 GMT
One of the fundamental core traits of fascism is a total intolerance to opposing views. Anyone having them can expect to be silenced in some way often with the use of intimidation and threats and at the very least discredited. Its a fascist trait very common in the far left and the overtly woke obsessed. See DATM for examples. TBH I'm struggling to think of anyone currently active on there that I would describe as properly "woke". Hukkas had a tendency to lose his rag from time to time but he was at least willing to debate the points he made. Artysid was always an interesting poster who provided thought provoking questions. Deepspace always challenged peoples' views in a non-aggressive way. TBH, that's why I always enjoyed the politics section over there - whether I agreed with people or not there was usually an interesting discussion. I'm pleased that this place is dispelling some of my previous concerns about it being nothing more than an echo chamber and as it grows, there are more and more persepctives being put forward to make it interesting. Genuine "woke/fascist" nastiness was always pretty rare (not forgetting that the subject matter meant it did sometimes get heated). |
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